Four Premises Allah is omniscient. Nothing happens except by Allah’s will. Allah Himself has free will. Allah cannot make a mistake. If these statements are all presumed true, then they can serve as the logical starting points for determining their consistency with the concept of a “test for salvation.” Analysis 1: Because nothing happens except by Allah’s will, all human beings are created only according to Allah’s will. 2: Because Allah is omniscient, Allah knows the eventual fate of every person even before the moment of their creation. 3: Because Allah has free will, he has the free will to create or not create any human being he chooses. 4: Therefore, at the moments of creation, Allah is choosing to create some people that he already knows will be saved, and others that he already knows will be condemned to hell. 5: Therefore, since the results of every lifetime are already known even prior to creation, the “test” for salvation is already complete even before the created individual is born. ** Q.E.D. Life on earth cannot be a test for salvation. The test is already complete before life on earth takes place.** Further Analysis 6: If a human being were capable of doing anything to change his fate from the one Allah already determined, then Allah would have made a mistake. 7: Since Allah cannot make a mistake, a human being cannot do anything to change his fate from the one Allah already determined. Q.E.D. Human beings cannot have free will. Conclusion Life on earth is not a test for salvation. For what is there to test if the results are known ahead of time and there is nothing we can do to change them? Qiyamah, the Islamic Day of Judgment, is a farce. For we are not being judged based on our behaviors, but on Allah’s previous decision. People are not led to Islam because it is superior message or religion, but because Allah decided that they would become Muslims whether they wanted to or not. Since the vast majority of human beings who have ever lived, and who are living today are not Muslim, Allah must have created the vast majority of human beings for the express purpose of condemning them to Jahannam. Therefore the primary purpose of creation must be hell and suffering, not paradise and salvation. references: Quran 17:13: Sahih International And [for] every person We have imposed his fate upon his neck, and We will produce for him on the Day of Resurrection a record which he will encounter spread open.
I think calling Muslims out as if they are obliged to answer you is pretty dodgy. You could raise the same discussion with a tone of really trying to understand, not as if your old and tired argument is some clever new thing that will suddenly make every Muslim give up their religion. But the first reply is outright stupid bigotry. Way to make Muslim members of this forum feel totally unwelcome, when they have exactly the same right to be here as anyone else. By the way, your argument holds just as much for Christians, to the extent that it does hold any water. Christians are also a global minority at about 30% with Muslims at 23%.
I'm not a muslim but if you want to catch muslims you should go deeper, a person's fate or destiny according to shittie's sources is not totally determined by Allah because Allah has given humans the power of thinking and choise so humans can change their fate but Allah the great knows it in advance.
Actually the theory of predetermination terrifies numerous Christians. Jehovah witnesses for example are quite certain that only 144,000 people will be saved. And that all those people will be Jews but you see them [Jehovah witnesses] going to church every Sunday. Why? Because the identity of the 144,000 is not known. The same could be true to Muslims. While a handful might believe that they can't change their destiny there are those who believe that they could be the chosen few. Either way since no one is marked, it's best to try hard enough to be a good person. You'll be rewarded with love here on earth, first.
I do not understand the argument that Muslims have no free will. If that were true then all Muslims would be perfect because they are all carrying out Allah's will. There are Muslims out there that do bad things just like with any other religion. I think that all people have free will to some extent.
It has been proven that religions won't make people do good things, actually many evil things in the past and now has been carried out in the name of God.
That's a generalization that isn't entirely true. Just because someone affiliates himself with a particular religion doesn't make him religious. Maybe it does but it doesn't make that person pious. Only pious people do good things. The others though they label themselves "religious" are like everyone else — selfish, immoral, psychopathic, etc.
It's not only Muslims but there are Christian sects that have that premise that everything happens due to God's will. And since the church leaders are the direct connections of God then the believers should follow what the church leaders would say - that their decisions and policies are all from God. There is one denomination who instructs their church members on whom to vote during elections. Can you dig that? There's no more freedom and the free will of the people are subverted by the church.
I think it's people who allow themselves to be manipulated by church leaders. They've got freewill but they are brainwashed into believing that what the church leaders say is best for them. If only people would open their eyes and realize their leaders are no different from them — just selfish humans who will do anything that will profit them in some way . . .
