Pro life or pro choice?

Discussion in 'Politics Discussion' started by gmckee1985, Sep 23, 2014.

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  1. pro life

    11 vote(s)
    57.9%
  2. pro choice

    8 vote(s)
    42.1%
  1. kgord

    kgord Senior Investor

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    Even the way this is worded is misleading, like those who are pro choice are somehow against being positive or pro about life. Obviously, people who support a woman's right to choose are a fan of life. You should be able to give your baby the best life possible however, and some people are not really in the place to be able to make that commitment. I don't think it is an easy choice, but one someone should be able to make.
     
  2. missbishi

    missbishi Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying that you'd force your own daughter to go through a pregnancy as a result of rape then?
     
  3. SteakTartare

    SteakTartare Senior Investor

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    As a libertarian-leaning person, I've always struggled with this one. As general principle I believe adults should be able to run their lives as they see fit, without government intrusion and all the attendant BS that comes with it, as long as it is not infringing upon another person's rights. The sticking point is that an unborn child, if left to develop as nature works, will become a person with all the rights inherent on said. In removing someone's life, you remove all of his or her liberty forever. And as a father of two children, on a visceral, emotional level, I know I would move heaven and earth to make sure my children were not harmed in any way, shape, or form.

    So, where does that leave me? Pro-life leaning as I think between the two choices life is the one we have to err on. However, there are cases in which an abortion is absolutely, positively necessary (e.g., the woman's life) and nothing should stand in the way of that as has happened in some places.

    All that said, honest people can agree or disagree on this topic. Why it is so heated is, naturally, that it cuts to the very definitions of personhood and the extent of liberty. Issues brushing upon those points are pretty much always contentious.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  4. ScooterBrandon

    ScooterBrandon Senior Investor

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    Only in the mixed up worldview that is the Judea-Christian-Islam is this even an issue.
    Many traditional societies were pragmatic enough to understand that sometimes giving birth brings 0 advantage to a society.
    Plus the government has no right telling a woman what she can or cannot do with her body.
    It's not a person until it can survive on it's own outside the body.
     
  5. JR Ewing

    JR Ewing Super Moderator Staff Member

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    By that definition, most wouldn't be considered a person until they became an adult. Hell, nearly half the US adult population wouldn't be considered "persons". :D


    I don't believe I have the right to tell another person what they can or cannot do with their own body. I sure as hell don't have any business telling a woman or girl who was raped or whose life or health is endangered by her pregnancy that she must carry the baby and give birth to it.



    But I do not believe that the fetus is a lifeless part of the woman's body at 9 months, or at birth, or anytime after. It is beyond my expertise to give a definitive answer as to what exact point between conception and birth that it becomes a life. But I think that anyone who would agree that it's still "a woman's right to choose" at 8 months and 3 weeks out is a bit of a loon. My question would be why not take care of the matter with a morning after pill, or otherwise with a very early-term abortion if need be - after missing a period or 2, something should be obvious...

    In the absence of such complications as rape or health dangers, I cannot understand why more people aren't fans of adoptions - or better yet one form or another of birth control. Personal responsibility.
     
  6. SteakTartare

    SteakTartare Senior Investor

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    Amen to personal responsibility. If more people took personal responsibility and planned for major life events (and having kiddos is a big one), there would be a lot less misery in society. Ditto the adoption route; there a legion of good folks who want nothing more than be parents, but can't due to medical reasons. Why not give them their heart's desire and the child's chance to experience this amazing, wonderful world we live in?

    Beyond that, one other thing that is a bit off about American law (largely thanks to Planned Parenthood of Central Missouri v. Danforth and Planned Parenthood v. Casey) is the father has zero say, nor even has to be informed, regarding an abortion. It takes two to tango and the wee one is just a much his child as the mom's. If my wife, for example, wanted to aborted both my daughter and son, I couldn't have stopped it. Oh and it could have been done the day, heck minute, before/during delivery and on the taxpayer's dime. I can't help but find that pretty messed up.
     
  7. Sunflogun

    Sunflogun Well-Known Member

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    That is true, we need to be personal responsible, but apart from that, if we are bearing a child do we have the right to kill him/her? I don't think so.
     
  8. nissi

    nissi Well-Known Member

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    Abortion is wrong in all circumstances. I'm definitely pro life. Because God is pro life.
     
  9. Scooby Snack

    Scooby Snack Well-Known Member

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    I'm 100% pro-choice, and I resent emotionally-manipulative language such as "child murder" and "baby-killing" when used to describe the procedure. It's already been stated but I doubt that sane, rational people say "Abortion is awesome!" Whatever psychological and emotional baggage the would-be mother suffers is hers and her partner's to deal with (if he's in the picture). But I think the option should be available everywhere. Of course adoption is an option as well, but if someone decides that they just don't even want to go through a pregnancy at all, let alone bring the baby to term, then they should be free to choose not to go through with it, without moral crusaders shaming them for it.
     
  10. kgord

    kgord Senior Investor

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    I think the whole language around this topic is so loaded. Like saying the people who believe women who have a choice are somehow against life. I think I mentioned this before. It is not an ideal thing for anybody, but being forced to go through with a pregnancy that you don't want and have a baby you can't give a good life too, just seems unnecessarily cruel. There are too many people now who are parents who shouldn't be.
     

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