Pin numbers to be phased out

Discussion in 'The Cocktail Lounge' started by Alex, Nov 21, 2015.

  1. Alex

    Alex Senior Investor

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    With the recent expansion of contactless pay, I saw this story and I was concerned that phasing out pin numbers and replacing it with fingerprint or voice recognition will make it secure.

    What if people don't want to be fingerprinted, or if they don't have mobile phones? How can that be more secure? People can steal phones and access it that way, or in dramatic cases cut off someone's finger and steal money.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/bank-accounts/12005149/Pins-obsolete-within-five-years-and-pay-with-mobile-or-fingerprints-instead.html

     
  2. Rainman

    Rainman Senior Investor

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    I doubt that phasing out pin will make payments more secure. How hard can it be for someone to record someone's voice and use it to access their accounts? As for fingerprints as you point out, some thieves wouldn't hesitate to chop off fingers if that's what will give them access to someone's money. IMHO, pins are fine. While yes, PIN theft is something that should concern most people, there are ways one can protect himself/herself from such people.

    http://www.bankrate.com/finance/savings/4-tips-to-protect-you-from-atm-thieves-2.aspx
     
  3. crimsonghost747

    crimsonghost747 Senior Investor

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    If I was a cashier I think I would object if someone was sticking a separated finger into the payment processor. :D
    I'm ok with the pin number for now, fingerprints would probably be better (faster, more secure) but even they pose issues such as maybe you burned your finger and the machine can't read the print, you broke your hand and the finger needed is inside a cast etc. And of course changing every single payment processor, atm and credit card in the country would be ridiculously expensive.
     
  4. pwarbi

    pwarbi Senior Investor

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    I'd also like to keep the PIN number also, even if it is used just as a backup as while I do have contactless cards and they are simpler to use, there as been a few times were I've had to resort to using my PIN because they haven't been working.

    I think before they do get rid of the PIN number, they'll have to make sure the technology is 99% reliable and up to now, it doesn't appear to be.
     
  5. baudwalk

    baudwalk Senior Investor

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    Chip-and-pin technology, already in Europe, is finally making decent inroads in the US. The hangup is the cost of the processing unit's for especially the smaller retailers. No fingerprints necessary. I don't understand the problem.

    I can't read the story in the OP as the link is not trustworthy. It launches some kind of email thing that I killed before the page could load. Naughty, naughty.
     
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  6. JR Ewing

    JR Ewing Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll have admin look into it.
     
  7. Susimi

    Susimi Senior Investor

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    Thanks for the heads-up! The link seems to go directly to an email addy on icloud, at least that's what it's saying.

    As for the topic, I just don't understand it, I mean what is wrong with PIN numbers? I can understand wanting to make payments more safe and secure but isn't the chip an pin system the safest there is at the minute?
     
  8. crimsonghost747

    crimsonghost747 Senior Investor

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    The problem is that by stealing the pin code you can pretty much use the card without limits. With contactless pay etc there is usually a threshold, like here you can only use contactless if it's under 25 euros. (or something similar) But if you get the card and the PIN you can withdraw / pay as much as you want.

    There have been issues with organized crime. Such as criminals inserting a tiny tiny device into an ATM that reads the card and a tiny camera that can see the pin code. And voila, they have your card and your PIN and can empty your account. This has been happening all over Europe in an organized manner. The devices are hard/impossible to notice.
     
  9. Susimi

    Susimi Senior Investor

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    I think that sort of tech has been slowly combatted against in recent years to an extent that it's not as regular as it used to be, and don't the newer machines have a system that shuts them down if they are tampered with in any way?. The way it seems to be happening these days is two people working together. One person stands off the side and watches you enter your pin while the other person, acting as a lost tourist, shoves a map in your face distracting you as your card is ejected from the machine and your card is swiped by the other person who fades away into the crowds.
     
  10. baudwalk

    baudwalk Senior Investor

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    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-pay-with-mobile-or-fingerprints-instead.html

    Curious about the chip-and-pin business, I found the correct link to the Telegraph story. After reading a few USA-centric articles similar to http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/emv-faq-chip-cards-answers-1264.php I realize a signature or PIN is still required. The demise of the magnetic strip is the thing that increases security. Implementation in the US is still a slow road. That said, the Telegraph article suggests biometric alternatives to PINs may be forthcoming by 2020 in the UK, but the piece also acknowledges PINs aren't going away soon.

    From my warped perspective, biometrics shouldn't be necessary. People doing stupid things with a PIN -- too easy a number fereted out from personal data (think Facebook or LinkedIn for starters), writing the number on a scrap of paper kept in the wallet or purse, letting another person stand near you at an ATM, using an ATM in an unsecured location, et al -- is the real problem. Unfortunately stupidity isn't against the law.

    Biometrics might slow household break-ins where the bad guys, instead of demanding a PIN, would take the hostage to the biometric-upgraded ATM, but would the perpetrator(s) risk a kidnapping charge? Maybe we could consider that extra-stupid.

    In any case, in my opinion this article is pie-in-the-sky stuff. I'm not holding my breath. Too many competing POS (point-of-sale) technologies are competing to scrape transaction charges on the purchase of something. Think Samsung Pay (they have been bugging me to sign up), Google Wallet (also bugging me), Apple Pay, Square and more that I can't remember the names of, plus NFC (near field communication), tap-the-phone, bitcoin, and whatever $V and $MC are dreaming up. Whatever comes out of the tranaction mud wrestling pit will have either evolved or morphed into something entirety new, and the competitors will have been winnowed down.

    Personally, cash is king. Easy to use, accepted everywhere except for travel (airlines, rental cars and hotels). No PINs to remember. :)
     

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